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SILENTREBEL

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I am an extreme skeptic who has a profound distrust of anything labeled "common sense."
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Lawmaker may propose cutting epidurals, C-sections from medicaid

Seeded on Tue Sep 7, 2010 2:40 PM EDT
Read ArticleArticle Source: Daily Herald
health, health-care, medicaid, c-section, child-birth, epidural
Seeded by SilentRebel
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Under the theory that perhaps thousands of Utah college students are having babies paid for by Medicaid that they could pay for themselves, one lawmaker has a plan: cut all elective epidurals and elective C-sections.

Sen. Dan Liljenquist, R-Bountiful, has vowed massive Medicaid reform in next year's legislative session, and first on the list is people who may be freeloading. Medicaid pays for 15,000 births a year in Utah, a third of the total, Liljenquist says.

"Do we save some kid or make birth easier?" he said, noting that the waiting list for Medicaid in Utah just for the disabled has reached 4,400 people.

Liljenquist says the state could save millions. Epidurals, a shot given in the spine, are a common method of relieving pain during labor. At Utah Valley Regional Medical Center in Provo, 86 to 87 percent of women who deliver babies at the hospital get an epidural; studies show about 65 percent of births nationwide happen with an epidural.

Cesarean births have risen to nearly a third of all births nationwide and cost nearly double a vaginal birth. The average charge for a Cesarean delivery in Utah County in 2008 was $8,989, according to the Utah Department of Health. In 2008, the average cost of a vaginal birth in the county was $5,079, but that does not include an epidural.

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  • Public Discussion (20)
SilentRebel

To bad he can't have a baby... WITHOUT an epidural!

  • 10 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 2:41 PM EDT
kj031056-1

Exactly, how did I know it was a male just by reading the headline.......Maybe they should spend some of the stimulus money to provide lowcost birthcontrol and RELEVANT sex education in jr/sr high school. And I'm sure that in Utah the availability of abortion is high enough to cover these 15,000 students who are milking the system. Men it's time for you to start having babies yourself or STFU!

  • 2 votes
#1.1 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 7:40 PM EDT
CynicL1

Wonder if he is (A) Married <he is> and (B) if his wife ever given birth <5!!!> and needed a c section? that last part I don't know.

Mine had three the first an emergency, fortunately we had insurance, but I damn sure would not want to see someone poor not able to get one due to some wack job ultra right wing butt hole Politician.

  • 2 votes
#1.2 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 7:56 PM EDT
cookin mama

i can guarantee he is married and has kids. its Utah they have lots and lots of kids here.

  • 1 vote
#1.3 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 8:07 PM EDT
CynicL1

Saw that 5 little Utah Republicans I bet.

    #1.4 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 8:21 PM EDT
    kj031056-1

    Well of course he does, look where he comes from......Sen Dan, Bountiful (R).....

    • 1 vote
    #1.5 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 8:22 PM EDT
    sunnybunny1269

    I don't think it's that unreasonable to consider. I'm a woman and I know that epidurals and c-sections have gotten out of hand and are used unnecessarily making birth actually harder not easier and increasing the risk of birth injuries and female problems later in life. He is not proposing that necessary ones be not covered - just elective ones for people on medicaid. It would maybe free up money for birth control (which if you can't have a baby naturally, you should make sure you use so you won't have to go through the pain and risk of a complicated pregnancy and birth especially without a plan B as to how you will afford it.) Low risk women don't even need to go to the hospital (home births and birth center births are much less expensive and much nicer for both the woman and the baby) and that could account for as much as 90% of women if they took care of themselves properly.

      #1.6 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 11:04 AM EDT
      Merewen

      sunnybunny1269
      I don't think it's that unreasonable to consider. I'm a woman and I know that epidurals and c-sections have gotten out of hand and are used unnecessarily making birth actually harder not easier and increasing the risk of birth injuries and female problems later in life. He is not proposing that necessary ones be not covered - just elective ones for people on medicaid. It would maybe free up money for birth control (which if you can't have a baby naturally, you should make sure you use so you won't have to go through the pain and risk of a complicated pregnancy and birth especially without a plan B as to how you will afford it.) Low risk women don't even need to go to the hospital (home births and birth center births are much less expensive and much nicer for both the woman and the baby) and that could account for as much as 90% of women if they took care of themselves properly

      Wow... SMH

      • 2 votes
      #1.7 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 9:10 PM EDT
      Tired_of_ExtremistsDeleted
      Reply
      kj031056-1

      Hey Sen Dan.....I've got a free vasectomy for you, and in order to save a couple of bucks we are no longer paying for anesthesia. It'll only hurt for a second just grab a bag of frozen peas.....

      • 7 votes
      Reply#2 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 7:45 PM EDT
      CynicL1

      No fozen peas for dan, make him sit on a heating pad.

      • 4 votes
      #2.1 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 8:20 PM EDT
      Reply
      Shannoscubie

      They could save a HECK of a lot of money by eliminating painkillers for things like broken bones and root canals.

      But wait! Those things also happen to MEN, not just women. What was I thinking?!

      • 5 votes
      Reply#3 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 10:00 AM EDT
      SilentRebel

      I am of the male species, but I find it unfathomable that any man could in good conscience make this kind of statement and put forward this type of legislation when they have no practical understanding of what it means to be pregnant, let alone to give birth.

      • 6 votes
      Reply#4 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 10:36 AM EDT
      trm2008

      Sounds like this guy thinks poor woman deserve to be punished for having babies. Absolutely dispicable! (That's not really the words I want to use, but I don't want to be banned.)

      • 1 vote
      #4.1 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 1:35 PM EDT
      going up

      I know of many couples who live together but will not marry so that the taxpayer will pay for the pregnancy/birth expenses. And not just for the first child.

      That was never the intention for our programs, and I agree that it's time to put some brakes on the qualifying and benefits available.

      I never had epidurals - cuz I'm bad! lol

        #4.2 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 5:47 PM EDT
        Mz. Informed-2226836

        GOD I LUV U SILENT REBEL!!! Thank GOD there are still SENSITIVE and SELF-LESS men in the world...not that JACKA$$ lawmaker who OBVIOUSLY has WOMEN ISSUES that he needs to cut himself off of medicaid CUZ HE MAKES ENOUGH MONEY TO GO TO A THERAPIST and homeboy SHOLL needs one!

        I JUST found out I am preggo today and I will be DAMNED if these A$$HOLE HUMONSTER BEINGS start telling me what to do with MY OWN BODY!!!

        • 2 votes
        #4.3 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 7:01 PM EDT
        Reply
        estesjohn28Deleted
        scar_tissue

        That's....nuts!

        It's not as if the patient is the one making the decisions for these things, it's the OB/GYN. Why should the patient then be stuck w/ thousands of dollars in medical bills when she had nothing to say about what was done to her while she was in labor?

        It's not like a woman says, o give me a C-section b/c I don't want to bother w/ that pesky labor thing & add in a tummy tuck & a boob lift while you're down there! And epidurals are so hit & miss (b/c no one knows how fast labor is going to progress) that sometimes they're useless, but I'm sure patients, esp 1st-time mothers-to-be, are not begging for needles in their spines while in labor. Just the idea of it (having since had several for back issues) is revolting when you're in labor & have to sit on a table & bend fw over a heaving belly for it, no TY. I didn't ask for it; it was offered to me & I declined. But anyone who wants one to decrease the pain should be able to get it. It's not like labor is a tummyache! And the pushing stage is quite unpleasant as well.

        What's next, saying they can't even hand over a few $12-a-dose Tylenol to Mom afterwards for the uterine cramping? Maybe if reasonable prices were charged, the costs wouldn't be so high?

        If this jerk wants to save $, then how about no anesthetic given for a vasectomy? O wait, men wouldn't get one then, & there's just be more babies. I got it! Medicaid should stop paying for Viagra scrips....maybe that would reduce pregnancy! B/c Medicaid's refusal to cover an IUD certainly isn't helping that.

        • 2 votes
        Reply#6 - Thu Sep 9, 2010 10:21 AM EDT
        scar_tissue

        sunnybunny1269
        I don't think it's that unreasonable to consider. I'm a woman and I know that epidurals and c-sections have gotten out of hand and are used unnecessarily making birth actually harder not easier and increasing the risk of birth injuries and female problems later in life. He is not proposing that necessary ones be not covered - just elective ones for people on medicaid. It would maybe free up money for birth control (which if you can't have a baby naturally, you should make sure you use so you won't have to go through the pain and risk of a complicated pregnancy and birth especially without a plan B as to how you will afford it.) Low risk women don't even need to go to the hospital (home births and birth center births are much less expensive and much nicer for both the woman and the baby) and that could account for as much as 90% of women if they took care of themselves properly.

        Um yeah....I'm w/ Merewen on the WOW factor here.

        Are you kidding me? Painkillers for a painful medical issue should NEVER be "elective", & as I said, women don't get to say o I want a C-section if it's not necessary, so it's NEVER an elective procedure, either.

        What planet do you live on that you think Medicaid would cover things like home births or birthing centers? It doesn't. Hospital. Go there. End of discussion.

        Free up $ for birth control is a joke. Medicaid will NOT cover the 2 easiest forms of birth control, an IUD or condoms. Which is insane, as an IUD is the least expensive method in the long run as it's effective for 10 yrs despite its high initial cost. The Pill has been proven to cause issues from long-term use, not to mention how missing just one dose renders it null for the month. Medicaid also will not pay for a tubal ligation for a woman under the age of 30, even if she had 10 kids already, b/c they think that's "too young"....not to mention how dangerous a procedure it can be, women have died from having it done. Most men are too wussie for vasectomies. Creams & sponges & all that nonsense have very low rates of effectiveness. Miss a shot appt & oops. But Medicaid WILL pay for Viagra....go figure, huh? Accidents happen w/o Plan B sometimes, esp w/ crappy ins that won't help prevent it easily.

        How would anyone know if they "can't have a baby naturally" if they've never had one before? Is natural birth somehow superior to a C-section birth? Is a woman supposed to be prescient regarding the possibility of complications necessitating an emergency C-section? Is it necessary for natural birth to involve greater pain by not having an epidural for it? Is there a prize if a woman has a natural birth w/o painkillers? I didn't get mine, where is it?

        What does "if they took care of themselves properly" even mean? Medicaid does not consider a woman "pregnant" (save for elective abortion purposes) until the 2nd trimester, which means a woman w/ that as ins goes a third of her pregnancy w/o prenatal care right there b/c Medicaid won't pay for it. Are you insinuating that anyone dumb enough to not have a plan & be on Medicaid is too stupid to breed w/ such a remark? I'd hazard MOST pregnancies are unplanned, even for ppl w/ not-Medicaid coverage. Ooops. I rather find that statement to be stereotyping women by socioeconomic status. Poor doesn't naturally equal too stupid to take care of oneself.

        Um, yeah....WOW, indeed.

        • 1 vote
        Reply#7 - Thu Sep 9, 2010 10:47 AM EDT
        Shannoscubie

        Is there a prize if a woman has a natural birth w/o painkillers? I didn't get mine, where is it?

        LOL! I know. I didn't get one, either. All I ever DO get is looks that say "Were you out of your MIND!?"

        • 3 votes
        #7.1 - Thu Sep 9, 2010 10:54 AM EDT
        sunnybunny1269

        Where do I start? First I am not on the same page as those that don't want medicaid to be the best plan available (He is correct it is which is sad because there should be better plans available - not because medicaid should be worse but because the other plans should be better.)I do however realize that they are working with funds and have to figure out how to allocate them.

        Many people believe that Dr's and hospitals will suggest the treatments for a patient based on their liability and their compensation. Unnecessary surgery is unethical and undesirable on so many levels I don't know where to begin with that one. If they aren't sure how they are getting paid for it they won't be as likely to do it.

        Epidurals are ineffective and can actually cause complications:

        http://epidural.kimjames.net/epidural_risks_and_side_effects.htm

        But yet nearly all women who have babies in the hospital have them. What is wrong with this picture?

        It is a well known fact that C sections are over done - mostly to make money or to be "on the safe side". If the financial incentive isn't there, they would have to show a reason why they did it in order to get paid. That doesn't mean they can't do it when it's needed they just have to demonstrate that it is indeed needed.

        Florida medicaid does cover birth centers I had mine covered that way, but not home births which are half the cost which makes no sense. I would have preferred to have her come to my house and it would have been a smaller bill for medicaid, but due to some control issue they seem to have, or some bias stereotype against poor women, they don't allow that.

        I would think people like this might just be on board with something that saves money and is less intrusive on personal choice. Guess only to an extent due to prejudice. Too bad, but a birth center is a pretty good option, and a fair compromise. And on the subject of what medicaid will pay for, tubals are definitely on the list as well. (Condoms are free - have been since AIDS was discovered where have you been a number of organizations give them out including all county health departments) IUDs are covered by medicaid as well. I do know this for a fact. The problem with birth control on medicaid is that the working poor don't get medicaid. It needs to be more accessible.

        You don't seem to good with Birth Control. If you use it correctly it is 99% effective, so if everybody had access to it and used it correctly, only about 1% of pregnancies would be unplanned. Your statement that MOST pregnancies are unplanned is incorrect.But unfortunately 50% are. Again, what is wrong with this picture? And if you aren't dilligent enough about your health to take a pill every day, do you not see that as failing to take care of yourself? Planned perenthood is not just the name of an organization, it is a philosophy regarding parenting wher people have babies when and if they WANT TO. Women who have a disease or condition where having a baby would be high risk should really consider if they actually want to do it. There are a number of factors that are used to determine ahead of time that a pregnancy could be high risk. Have you never heard of them?

        http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec22/ch258/ch258b.html

        Prenatal care is not just something you pay for . It is something you do. You exercise,eat a balanced diet, don't smoke, etc. BEFORE you go off your birth control to allow yourself to get pregnant is the proper time to start - not when you start going to the doctor to evaluate your pregnancy. That is what I refer to as taking care of yourself properly. Just letting yourself randomly get pregnant isn't taking good care of yourself.

          #7.2 - Thu Sep 9, 2010 11:47 AM EDT
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